Jason Adkins: [00:00:00] Welcome to Catholic in America, a podcast in partnership with OSV News. I'm Jason Atkins. In this episode, we're diving into a movement that's challenging men to break free from spiritual complacency and instead step into life of discipline, prayer and brotherhood. Joining us is Dr. Jared Stout, director of Content.

At Exodus 98, powerful spiritual exercise that has helped thousands of men across the world rediscover their identity in Christ and embrace the call to lead in virtue, Dr. Stout is not only a seasoned theologian and author, but also a passionate evangelist for the renewal of Catholic manhood. In our time in this episode, we'll explore the mission behind Exodus 90, why the church urgently needs to evangelize men today, and how authentic leadership is forged through sacrifice, community, and grace.

This is a timely conversation because there are lots of alternatives and influencers out there who are inviting men into [00:01:00] deeper conversations about substantive things that really matter and what manhood looks like today. Many of these voices are excellent. Some are at best, incomplete while others border on what might truly be described as toxic masculinity.

By contrast, Exodus 90 is focused on the virtues, prayer and holiness, and with a deep foundation in scripture and the lives of the saints, which are definitely time tested strategies to foster deeper discipleship. So whether you're a man looking to grow in holiness or someone invested in the spiritual renewal of our culture, this conversation will certainly challenge and inspire.

Now full the disclosure too. Before we begin, I am a subscriber to Exodus 90 and enjoy it very much. Welcome Dr. Stout to Catholic in America. It's great to be with you. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Thanks so much for having me. 

Jason Adkins: Tell us a little bit about what Exodus 90 is for those who are not familiar with the program. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: So we have been around for about 10 years.

We grew [00:02:00] out of seminary formation actually. Um, there was a seminary formulator who realized that men were coming in with a lot of baggage and they needed to get their lives in order. They really needed to learn how to pray and, and deal with a lot of issues. And so this priest came up with a 90 day spiritual bootcamp of.

Praying a holy hour, um, being really disciplined and organized, including exercising, doing a lot of fasting, abstaining for media, taking cold showers, which is one of the things we're known for. Um, and then meeting with other men once a week in fraternity. The combination of these things together has been very transformative.

So our founder, Jamie Baxter, took this program outta the seminary and brought it to men in the world, and, and we've now worked with over 200,000 men, uh, around the entire world and have seen really wonderful results with those same basic ingredients. Prayer, asceticism, [00:03:00] which means training, right? There's training in the Christian life and fraternity, um, together.

They help men to, I think, really just make advancements in the spiritual life to become more disciplined and to have support because we really can't live the Christian life on our own. 

Jason Adkins: You're a really talented young theologian. You've got a lot of initiatives that you're working on and things that you're doing.

Why have you personally decided to spend your time and your vocation, your ministry, working with Exodus 90? 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: So after teaching a couple of places, Augustine Institute, university of Mary, I was working for the Archdiocese of Denver, both in Catechesis and in Catholic schools. And what became overwhelmingly clear is that dads are pretty disengaged.

And yet all this evidence was pointing to the fact that they're the number one influence in the lives of their children, especially the faith of their children. I mean, by far. And [00:04:00] yet they need a, a, a lot of support and help. And so some people have even remarked that our modern Christianity is not very masculine.

It actually doesn't challenge us very much. It doesn't call us to do much. Uh, and so we as men just need more. Right? And so I think this whole idea of doing difficult things for God of, of really entering into the spiritual battle and being able. To serve others more because a lot of men, I think they desire to, to support their family and faith, but don't know where to begin.

So we, we really have helped men to do that. And so for me, you know, kind of my big, uh, goal is to support Catholic culture. And by that I mean the, the living out of faith and daily life. But the number one place where that's gonna happen is the home. And the number one leader for that to happen is the father.

Jason Adkins: I love it. I wanted to introduce people right at the, [00:05:00] uh, start of this discussion to what Exodus 90 is. A little bit about the why behind it, and you've explained it so well. Let's zoom out a little bit and tart, start talking a little bit more about the problem. You talked about the crisis of fatherhood leading to the crisis of manhood.

Um, young men in our society are struggling economically, culturally, spiritually. Disengagement and discouragement might be two buzzwords. And that's also having an impact in the sense of people becoming the rise of the nuns, N-O-N-E-S, um, people leaving the church pews behind. Um, what's, say a little bit more about the problem of the mass disengagement of young men generally.

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: I think there's a number of things. I mean, one, I've, as I've already mentioned, there's been an internal crisis of the church. You know, for a while we didn't even really teach the faith very much, and everything has become so watered down. You don't really need to fast. I mean, we, we have two days of [00:06:00] fasting, but you can still eat three times a day and you know, just like everything has become very fluffy, if you will.

But then what's happening at the same time is that young men are inundated. By, you know, everybody is, but I mean, young men especially all these images. And so what's happening is that our passions are being inflamed. And really w what's happening is that young men are being encouraged simply to give into their base desires, our kind of animal instincts.

And we're constantly being fed, um, in that direction. That actually creates weakness. You know, our, our culture thinks, you know, that that's veri masculinity, you know, to just really lean in into those lesser aspects. But when you look at what, what manhood really is, virtue comes from right, veer and Latin man and virtue entails being able to control our desires and to direct them to [00:07:00] what is good.

When we think of, you know. Manhood. We often think of sacrifice, you know, the soldier going into battle, the firefighter going into the house. Well, that means you have to be able to control your fear, um, and you have to be able to put others before just, you know, fulfilling those base desires and instincts.

So I, I would really say that if the church is not there to call men to, to a greatness, um, it's too easy. For us simply to be pulled along to follow these passions and desires. 

Jason Adkins: We certainly have a culture that preaches, indulgence on one level, but also what you might call the manosphere is booming as well.

Um, there's podcasts and websites called The Art of Manliness. Joe Rogan is talking about fitness and mental toughness. Other influencers talk about discipline. Jordan Peterson wrote a book about making your bed and, you know, using 10 simple rules, and it [00:08:00] was. Bestseller. So what's going on there? People, it seems that there's a market and a demand for this, for just basic guidance and, and real fundamentals and essentials, and it seems like Exodus 90 is, is trying to meet that moment as well.

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: One of my closest friends, Jason Craig, has a book, um, actually published by OSV, um, leaving Boyhood behind. And he focuses on the fact that cultures throughout history have specifically taught boys how to be men. Because if, if we don't do it right, then we are just going to follow those lesser instincts, right?

Because that's natural, that that's what happens at a certain age. And men have to be taught actually how to direct them in the right way. And cultures used to spend a lot of time doing that. And you didn't have these rites of passage, which were a, a kind of ritual initiation. But that happened through mentorship from adults and through difficult [00:09:00] trials, of course, to kind of.

Prove that you are ready to enter into the mature community of adults. We don't have anything like that any longer. Um, and a a a lot of others, I mean, I think Matthew Crawford, for instance, has even pointed out that we've just stopped learning how to even do basic things. I mean, things like changing a flat tire, you know, or, or being able to just fix things around the house and, and work with engines.

All, all these kinds of things. Nobody's there. Handing on that knowledge. So there is a great void and some of the things you mentioned, I mean, have been helpful to men because they don't have a man mentoring them into adulthood. They don't know how to do these basic things. And so I think what, what happens in Exodus is that we're trying to do something like that, but obviously in the context of faith and say, well, well, what does it mean?

To be a mature Christian man. And we do provide space and we do have older [00:10:00] men working with younger men. You know, we don't specifically have rites of passage, but I think Exodus 90 itself could be a rite of passage for a lot of young men to do something very difficult for 90 days. And of course, we offer daily content throughout the year, so we're we're able to help men to continue on after the difficulty of those 90 days.

And of course, we have St. Michael's lent. Which starts on August 15th, that's now become our second biggest challenge of the year. And, and this is just creating more touch points to kind of gather men together. St. Francis of Assisi is our big model for, for St. Michael's lent, and we do have to look to those kinds of models to understand, well, what does it mean to be a man?

And we see St. Francis of Assisi, um, was not afraid to do difficult things for God, right? Because as you said, with a lot of these. Things out there. You know, sometimes it can encourage men to simply wanna be like macho or, you know, but we need to use our [00:11:00] masculinity for higher things, right? To, to protect and defend others, to serve others, and ultimately to honor God.

Jason Adkins: Where do the influencers that the, the masculinity influencers of the maister, what do they get right and where do they go astray and become problematic? 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Well, I, I think what they get right, as I've already mentioned, is filling in that void in the sense that men are not just going to figure out on their own, by and large what it means to be a man in our culture.

And so there are some forgotten things. They're being brought up like, Hey, men used to know how to do these things. You should learn how to do them again. Do you know how to hunt? You know. Whatever. Can you smoke a pipe? And some of these things can be, this is where you already begin to see it. I can't do either on 

Jason Adkins: toast.

So 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: yeah. And then that's where it can be goofy in a sense. Like, well, let's just wear funny hats and get, get together and smoke pipes. And you're like, okay, I mean, fine, but is that really what manhood is [00:12:00] about? And, and that's why we do need something more, you know, sometimes people can get nostalgic and then you start, you know, even having little groups that initiate people in the knighthood.

But on the other hand, what were the Knights about? You know, because there were a lot of men say in the middle Ages that were kind of like marauders. You know, people would go around and they would just take things that they wanted, et cetera. But the knight aspired to an ideal of self-sacrificial service, particularly protecting the vulnerable, defending the honor of the church.

Um, and. To actually wanna go stand up to others that are doing things that they shouldn't do. That requires a lot of sacrifice. Even think of the crusaders, you know, people don't understand the crusades at all today, but they, they say, well, you know, these bunch of greedy men who just wanted to go over and, you know, rape and pillage in the Middle East, no, most of them knew that they probably wouldn't make it back.

It was actually a great act of, of [00:13:00] self-sacrifice. So I think where these influencers get it wrong. Is that many of them, not all of them, but many of them don't understand that true happiness comes from self-sacrifice, and so they might just want to build up our masculinity for its own sake. Let's do all these masculine things.

Well, they're not being done by and large, so okay, that's maybe a beginning, but if you can't understand our masculinity in light of Jesus Christ, who is the perfect man? St. Paul in Ephesians four talks about, you know, maturing to our full manhood in Jesus Christ, right? If, if we don't understand the cross as the real measure of manhood, well then we have gone wrong, right?

It's stopped too short, or it's gone, uh, the wrong direction. 

Jason Adkins: Let me ask a skeptical question. Is masculinity really the right frame of reference for us? It, it seems to imply, you know, certain stereotypes about sex, um, and particular [00:14:00] roles. I think John Paul too really talked about manhood and womanhood as not sort of, not so much masculinity and femininity, but to the extent that they model motherhood and fatherhood.

Would that be a perhaps alternative or maybe a better frame of reference in the sense, like you're saying. We must look to Christ on the cross as the ultimate sacrificial gift, but in understanding our manhood and our womanhood, is masculinity and femininity limited in a way that may be thinking about it in terms of fatherhood and motherhood, even if you're not biological fathers or mothers, that might be a helpful frame of reference.

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Yes. I, I, I do think that if we remain more abstract, you know, it even can be stereotypical, right? This is what masculinity is, when actually, well, I mean, there are many different kind of expressions of manhood. Like we already said, I can't. 

Jason Adkins: Know, smoke a pipe or hunt. So, uh, you know, I'm still two strengths, stills against me right there still.

I know I still need to learn to smoke a pipe. [00:15:00] That's just one thing I need to do. So 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: while hunting no. Anyway. Yeah, while, while killing 

Jason Adkins: beasts, yes, that would be good. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: But, um, father Innocent Montgomery, who is actually one of our spiritual guides, uh, for St. Michael's Lent, he's a CFR, but he has a book, which is a lent and retreat for men.

We actually. Delivered it through our app for our men to read this last year. Uh, he actually tries to understand Christian manhood through a series of relationships, you know, being son, um, being father, and as you said, even if you're not a biological father, you know, being brother to, to other men. And I, I think that was very helpful because when we think about manhood in terms of relationship.

That is already pointing us down the right path because then it's not I need to be masculine. I'm going to do these masculine things because what do you often see then [00:16:00] if men are married and have children, which can't take that for granted any longer because less are right? But then I'm going to go apart from my family and do these masculine things.

But I mean, ultimately you would want fathers to be, to be teaching their sons how to do things and doing them with them. Right. Raising them up to be men. And so it's the relationships, even brother. Right. You know, I, I was reflecting that fraternity. It's not simply the same thing as friendship, right?

Because you don't just get together and hang out with your friends in Exodus 90, right? And it's not simply, well, you know, an act of charity like, well, I'm gonna go and give somebody food who's just sitting on the side of the road, right? If Brotherhood is something different, like I am in a community with these men, like they are probably in my own parish.

I may work with them, they might live in my neighborhood. Right. So I, I'm in a, in a relationship with them, but I don't know how to [00:17:00] really love them in the context of that relationship, the man you see in your parish, well, how do you, how do you relate to them? We, we don't have good ways of doing that. And so fraternity in a way, as a lost category.

We often used to have these fraternal organizations and even the middle Ages, that, that might be fraternities, like con fraternities is, you know, maybe a term that we're more familiar with, but they had the guilds and and con fraternities in the Middle Ages. And then even things like the Rotary Club, you know, or whatever.

It's just trying to, to get men together to cooperate, you know, for, for common ends. What about the men of the parish? You know, we have, we have the Knights of Columbus and they do charitable things. Together and, and there are social opportunities there, um, but we are often lacking in ways to really support each other in the faith to really support each other in growth and to invest in one another.

That's the key thing with fraternity. So you might not be my best friend or, or my biological brother, [00:18:00] but we're, we're in the same community, and I'm going to invest in you because you're my brother. I'm going to, I, I need your help myself. That's important to recognize that, and we are gonna help one another in, in the context of our faith.

Jason Adkins: Do you think too many men are trying to follow Christ in isolation? 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Yes. And you know, even when you read the Desert Fathers, and of course at Exodus 90 we have this great series on the Desert Fathers with Bishop Eric Varden. 

Jason Adkins: Highly recommended. It's excellent, not highly. Yep. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Yeah, it's a great series. But I also recommend all of Bishop Varden books, including his one on Chastity.

Um, but the Desert Fathers, um, really helped to put things in context. Um, they would. Tell us that we, we, you know, we really need, uh, to be humble, that we really, um, need to reveal [00:19:00] what we are struggling with to our brothers. That's the key thing with fraternity, when we are simply alone, right? It, it allows things to fester.

So there are a lot of things that most the majority of men are struggling with right now. We, we've already, you know, brought up a couple, but there, there is really a challenge, um, of purity in our culture and, and that kind of sin brings a lot of shame. And so the desert fathers say, when you bring that up to your brother, who by the way is probably also struggling in some way with that.

Also it takes some of the, the sting out of that bite because when it is in isolation, it does tend to, to just fester. So yes, if we are in isolation, I mean there, there's a bunch of things that happen. One, we we're not held accountable. It's easier to get out of a, a good routine, but we do then think, and this is [00:20:00] a, a modern problem, I can carry all of my burdens myself.

And the devil works on that. Like, okay, you're gonna keep that hidden. You know, you think that you can overcome that. And we fall into these same patterns and, and when they're exposed, you know, and or unmasked if you will, all of a sudden, you know, we can have a breakthrough and, you know, our brothers can really help us, uh, in a way, even just long term, uh, to work through some of these difficulties.

Jason Adkins: Yeah, there's that old saying that God can will never give us anything we can't handle. But I'm not sure that's correct in the sense that I think he gives us things we can't handle all the time because that's where grace comes in. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Yeah. I think Paul's pretty clear that God will not give you any difficulty that he can't handle.

You go that that's 

Jason Adkins: that's right. The right 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: way of understanding that his 

Jason Adkins: grace is sufficient. But that's, that's the secret sauce there as they say. What would you say to a, a guy who. Is, you know, interested in Exodus 90 for all the right reasons, but then the fra kind of shies away from the [00:21:00] fraternity thing and is a little bit nervous about that and opening up.

Um, how would you encourage someone in that regard? 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: I, I would simply say that you may derive benefit from just following along with our daily scripture readings and reflections and from doing the disciplines, but I think you're going to get stuck. You're not really going to experience the full promise of freedom.

So we say to, to be delivered from a lot of the difficulties that we do face when, when we are trying to carry these burdens alone. So fraternity's difficult and, and it doesn't happen right away. So you might jump in with a group of men and just think. This is not for me. Like I, I don't know how I could get along with these men.

I don't maybe might even think I don't like any of these men, but that's actually the purpose. Can you give of yourself to these other [00:22:00] men to, to be vulnerable with them, to support them out of faith, out of charity? I said it's a really unique kind of expression of the Christian life fraternity that we do not often experience.

We think of the monastic life. I mean beyond the Desert Fathers, right? In general, that is a kind of inspiration for us. We're not trying to be monks, but we do learn, well, well, how have they lived? The faith so well, and this aspect of communion, right? This fraternity that they, that the monks have with one another is essential for their growth in the Christian life.

So I would simply challenge a man for your own sake, and, and here's a key part for the sake of the other men. As well to give yourself to it even if you don't want to, even if you don't see any immediate benefit out of it, because the more that you commit to it, you will begin to see fruit as time goes on.

Jason Adkins: That's really well said. Let's turn. [00:23:00] To, you know, the, the core, what seems to be the core of Exodus 90, which is the forgotten language of asceticism, even countercultural, not just in the broader culture, but even countercultural sometimes in the church itself, a forgotten language. Not just outside the church, but also inside the church.

Strangely though, you see on the outside of the church, people doing all these extreme fasts and disciplines and exercise routines and just punishing regimens that people put themselves through, but for their own idolization of their bodies or other other reasons, or some kind of zen mental clarity, their mindfulness that they're seeking.

But, you know, we, we look ATOD 90, it's. No sweets, no tv. You mentioned the cold showers, which is really difficult here in Minnesota, in Jan, in January. In that first part of, uh, lent some look at this and say, why would anyone do this? Say a little bit about the role of asceticism in the spiritual life from the church's perspective.

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Jesus [00:24:00] told us that if you wanna come after me, you must deny yourself. Take up your cross and follow me. And I do think that modern Christianity wants to have its cake and eat it too. You'd be like, well, I wanna follow Christ. I, I wanna be holy, I wanna be a saint. You know, everybody can be a saint. You know, we have the universal call to holiness, but I don't need to do all those crazy things at the Saints did throughout history.

I mean, that was a different time, you know, in the Middle Ages, maybe they must have been a little unhinged, you know, all this fasting that they did all the time. But the, the real issue is we're we're not growing the way that we think we, you know, are, you know, we, I think when you really look at the lives of the saints, the kind of holiness that they reached requires a great gift and, and sacrifice.

And as the point of asceticism is actually not just giving a bunch of things up. Say, well, I'm gonna do all these hard things for God. And that can be very pian in a way. Like, you know, I'm gonna take these cold showers, I'm [00:25:00] gonna fast, I'm gonna, you know, discipline my body, but for what? And so the, I think the reason why we have a hard time with the cynicism in the modern world is we, we struggle with individualism, uh, which is not just isolated in the way we were talking about before, but it's very self-focused.

So. Really, we need it more than ever. Right. You know, I think in the Middle Ages they, they had, uh, a strong culture that would even kind of direct them beyond themselves. Well, we don't have that, and this is why we need, you know, fraternity to help us to draw us out of it. But this asceticism, it literally means training.

Well, training for what? Well, if we're going to reach this full stature of manhood in Christ, that means that there has to be. A discipline of our lower desires. Now, a lot of times we don't even like talking about that anymore. No, no. Everything's good. You know, eating's good sex is good and it's like, well [00:26:00] yes, when directed towards Christ.

And in order to do those things right and in order to direct our eating towards Christ, we need to fast, um, to be able to say that there is a deeper hunger. I mean, some of the saints literally have said you cannot pray on a full stomach. I mean, like I said, we have not even begun to begin. Like some of us said, well, yeah, we're, we're holy.

But it's like we haven't even begun to begin because we haven't really embraced this conversion of the death to self. We're not hungry enough, literally. Right. You know, metaphorically. But, but even literally, we're not hungry enough. And then, you know, we think, well, okay, theology of the body, well that means sex is good.

So. Therefore it's good, right? And it's like, well, what do I have to do to get to the place where my desires actually are pure? Because that's what John Paul II is talking about. It's, it's a disciplining of my desire so that I can give of myself to the [00:27:00] other. That's not easy. It, it actually takes a, a, a lifetime of self-mastery through God's grace and marriage is ordered towards that.

Um, so. I, I think that, uh, as I mentioned, unfortunately, a lot of us have not even begun to try to discipline ourselves in that way. And so asceticism is meant to be a, a, a kind of school of self-mastery so that our, our thought, our, not just our desires, even our thoughts, right? That our thoughts, desires, emotions, our relationships can all be directed towards Christ.

Therefore, all of those things are an expression of love. This is not, you know, you use, I said it's not Ian in the sense of proving ourselves, but it's also not neo jansenism. Like, all these things are so bad. I gotta give up all these terrible things. It's saying I love Christ more than anyone else, more than anything [00:28:00] else.

And so I'm going to direct these things to him. But that's difficult to do. Right. And that's what I think we often overlook the difficulty of actually directing all of our thoughts and, and desires towards him. 

Jason Adkins: You've already unpacked this to a degree, but I think just highlighting the connection between the words discipline and disciple, that being a disciple entails a set of disciplines and yes, going to mass, uh, on Sundays and important, it's one of the basics, right?

Um, encountering scripture, going to confession, you know, participating in the sacraments, encountering the word. Those are, those are the, the basics in the bedrock, but. What Exodus 90 invites us into and, uh, programs of asceticism is deeper disciplining of ourselves so that we can be better disciples. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Yes, I mean, uh, Jesus said, take my yoke upon you and learn from me.

Um, for I am meek and [00:29:00] humble of heart and so. To be a disciple, a student of Jesus Christ means to take on his yoke. Well, what what is a yoke, right? It's, it's for true oxen. 'cause you're, you're putting those oxen together and it's something that rests on the shoulder. Uh, and so I've already mentioned, you know, Jesus said to take up your cross every day.

Well, the cross is actually not something singular either. It's like Simon of Cyrene. He helps Jesus to carry the cross. So that's really key because when men ask me, what's the most important discipline of Exodus 90, I say the Holy Hour. Right? You know, during the 90 days we, we'd pray a Holy Hour and, and at least 30 minutes the rest of the year, because without that, what is everything else, right?

Jesus said, apart from me, you can do nothing. That's actually part of what the disciplines teach us because the men say, I, I can't do all the disciplines. All right. Oh, I failed today. And, and we say, well, [00:30:00] that's actually part of the learning experience here. Uh. Because we have to learn to be led and guided by Christ, um, to be placed within his yoke and to carry all of our burdens with him.

That's actually the purpose of this, right? It's so, yeah. It's not something that we're go, we go out to do on our own to prove ourselves. It's this humility of allowing our hearts to become meek and and humble in Christ. So that we can say that, okay, I am doing everything with in and through Jesus Christ.

Jason Adkins: Now one might look at these, some of these disciplines and say, boy, his yoke is heavy and his burden is not light. Uh, but I think one of the reasons why Exodus 90 and these similar programs of asceticism are resonating with especially young men today is because they're actually liberating. They free us from these things that we think are pleasures or goods in our lives, but which are actually huge [00:31:00] burdens on our shoulders and are weighing us down.

When we take upon the yoke of Christ and the disciplines that the church invites us into, they're actually freeing and liberating. Has that, has that been your experience as well as that people are learning that the yoke is indeed easy and the burden is lighter than some of the burdens with which we think are goods that we shoulder in our lives?

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Well, there is a, there is an irony here, right? When you follow your passions, there is a great burden that goes on your shoulders, and so we call. This apostate exodus for a reason. God goes to the Israelites in Egypt and says, I will free you from your task master who has placed these burdens upon your back.

That Israelites get out into the desert and they're like, oh, I wish I were back in Egypt. You know, all this food, even though they were slaves, right? And so to be free. Requires this discipline that we've been [00:32:00] discussing. But when we take it on, right, we take on the cross. There is then a lightness of heart.

So the, the burdens that come from sin, it kind of shackles of sin are lifted and there's a lightness of heart. And so Jesus doesn't say It's gonna be really easy to take up your cross and follow me, right? Because no, you have to die to yourself. Death is painful, you know, death hurts. But that there will be this freedom of heart that follows.

And so really this is a tale of two freedoms, right? The devil tells us that, you know, God wants to restrict your freedom, right? You really need to be free. You, you, you need to be like a, a God to yourself. You know, you'll know for yourself what's right and wrong. You, you'll decide, you know that I wanna do this or I wanna do that.

Um, so that's the freedom in a way that we base modern culture around. It's freedom from any restrictions. Um, but Exodus is about [00:33:00] coming into this freedom for something, freedom for God, freedom for others, freedom just for my own happiness. And yes, it requires a battle. We have to fight for that kind of freedom.

But the testimonials that we receive at Exodus 90 are truly amazing. And, and, and they come in every single day. Men are telling us, this changed my life. And you think, okay, I, I understand the prayer, right? But you think, okay, you know, you're meeting with these other men. You're taking a cold shower and fasting and abstaining from, from media, but praying, right?

It's like we're helping men to come closer to our Lord. To put their lives in order. And so yeah, we see amazing results, um, and men are telling us all the time of, of the difference that it really has made in their lives. 

Jason Adkins: Wonderful. Now, if you open the Exodus 90 app, and again, full disclosure, I am a subscriber and highly recommend it.

You might be surprised, though, to find [00:34:00] a weight training app and an exercise routine. Tell us a little bit more about the why behind why that's included in this great set of spiritual disciplines. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: We want to be rightly ordered, body, mind, and soul. And Paul tells us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.

So this is part of the overall package of discipline and what we have found. Is that a lot of the men come to us because they are struggling with unfreedom. Right? And more often than not, it does have something to do with pornography, but, but not completely, right? I mean, there are men who are addicted to online gambling today, or they're addicted to video games.

Um, but there are men who also feel. They, they have a physical burden that they're bearing as well. And so what we've actually found is that some men have a hard time making progress in purity, uh, because they're struggling just with an overall kind of lack of [00:35:00] discipline and order in their lives. And so committing to a regular discipline of exercise, well, that does a number of things.

It is a great stress reliever and it just helps us to become better ordered physically, which then has an impact mentally and emotionally, and gives us, I think, just greater courage, um, and self-mastery when it does come to these other areas that we're struggling. And so one of the things that we tell our men is everything is related.

Right. You might be experiencing a fire here in your life, and part of the way to put out that fire is actually not just to focus on that, that sounds counterintuitive. You're like, what? Something's on fire. So just put all the resources into that, but the fire just keeps burning anyway. So say, well, no, actually, you might have to attend to something over here.

You didn't realize that this thing was actually holding you back in general. So, um, it's, it's actually a, a key part, like I said, of just the general [00:36:00] discipline and order. Um, and fitness, uh, you know, personal, just overall wellness, uh, of life. 

Jason Adkins: You talked about the importance of models of manhood and masculinity, and Exodus has done a series of meditations and reflections on Christian Kings.

Now, of course, we can say theologically that we all are kings because we participate in Christ's threefold mooner of priest, prophet, and king. But on a practical level, one might think, oh, what a, what do medieval kings or, or maybe not so medieval kings, like blessed Carl of Austria. How can I even relate?

Why? Why have you chosen to invite Christian men to consider the witness of the great Christian kings and rulers of the past? 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: As you mentioned, Christ himself is king. Uh, as Americans, we bear a lot of prejudice against kingship. Um, medieval kings were not absolute rulers, right? Absolute monarchy came in the modern period.

A lot of people aren't aware of that, but, uh, medieval kings were very limited in their [00:37:00] power, and it was often more of a ceremonial role, but that was a very fatherly role of, of seeking the good of the entire kingdom. And so it's not a nostalgic exercise. You, you know, there are only two canonized diocesan priests.

I think we're about to get a third because there was just a miracle approved of a Spanish diocesan priest. But um, 

Jason Adkins: when you look at Christian, that's an astounding fact by the way. I think we should stop and 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: consider that. Yes. But then you look at, at Kings, and it's astounding. There are dozens and dozens of canonized kings, and so these are laymen.

For the most part. Um, so some of the Christian kings are actually ordained sub deacons as layman. But anyway, nonetheless, generally speaking, there are laymen who were mostly married with children, they had work to do in the world. They fought battles [00:38:00] and. Often it's, it's really amazing when you look at how many of these kings were unsuccessful from an earthly perspective.

They either lost their kingship, they lost major battles. Um, many of them were actually martyred. Uh, so there is so much to learn from the example of these men. It is amazingly relevant. We actually did begin with blessed Carl of Austria. A, a king who was not successful, um, from an earthly perspective, right?

He, he became Emperor and King of Hungary, um, during the First World War through all of his efforts behind working for peace. But he was unsuccessful in that, and he was deposed. He and he even tried to reclaim the throne of twice unsuccessfully and then died young in exile. Basically the Americans killed him in the sense that we made sure that the Americans in particular were dead set on making sure that no kings were restored to the throne after the first World War.

And it was actually a, [00:39:00] a terrible mistake, 

Jason Adkins: especially the Austria-Hungarian Empire, right? And what a nice buffer that would've been between Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany. But. Right. The last and 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: the Hun Zos in Germany as well. Mm-hmm. Uh, that probably could have prevented the Nazis from coming to power.

So the American prejudice against Kings actually set up the Second World War, you know? But, um, blessed Carl, you know, it was an amazing, uh, he was a generous man, a man of peace, and a, and a wonderful husband and father. So that was very inspiring for our men. We did a series on him last October, and that actually then led us to say.

Look at some of these other great kings, you know, and some of them are well known. You know, Louis the Ninth of France, or St. Stephen of Hungary. Um, the Emperor Henry, who's the Saint Benedict, obl, et cetera. But. There were many other gems, uh, which we uncovered. And so we wrote 53 short biographies of Kings and we're actually thinking of publishing it as a book with [00:40:00] 90 because there were so many others we couldn't even hit in those 53.

So that's how many there are. 

Jason Adkins: So what, what is it that, you know, Christian kingship, and this particularly, I think, resonates with a lot of young men and, you know, who seem disempowered and disenfranchised today, um, and want leadership. There's, there's really a hunger for leadership and a, a leadership vacuum in our society today.

So there's something beautiful about that witness. How do we prevent it from just becoming nostalgia? You know, we talked about Tweed Jackets. Pipes and things like that, um, which are good in of themselves, but what's bring, bring forward the relevance of Christian kingship besides just at the personal level of virtue for citizens of a republic and not a monarchy.

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Yeah, so we not only have a, a lot of negative prejudice towards Kings in the sense thinking there are these absolute monarchs who patronized over people, which isn't true for the most part. But [00:41:00] then there's this other weird, I just say kinda almost like a nostalgia. Well, Kings just sat around and did whatever they wanted.

When you, when you read the, the biographies of these kings, they constantly are having to sacrifice for the good of their people. That's really the key thing. We, we talked earlier about masculinity, right? Manhood, uh, may be a better way of saying it, right? That Christian manhood is about following Christ.

That's what we see in these kings, is that they were not able to just sit back and enjoy life. No. Right. They were the ones who had to go out and deal with all the problems constantly. They had to go into battle, not because it was fun. It was horrible, you know? And so they are constantly seeking the holy ones, right?

Constantly seeking the good of their people by sacrificing in their leadership. They really were servant leaders who did embody Christ kingship in the sense of giving of themselves for the good of their people. And often what, when, when I was going through all [00:42:00] these biographies, it's a really amazing, this is why a lot of them did become saints.

How many of them even gave up their lives willingly? For the good of their people. Um, and so that's what we can really learn as husbands, fathers, as Christian men, is to say whatever our vocation is, whatever we do for work, whether we're married, whether we're single, our role is to use the gifts and talents and the responsibilities that God has given to us, sacrificially for the good of others.

That's the overwhelming message of these holy kings. 

Jason Adkins: I love the line. I think it's, remember Franz Joseph, blessed Carl's predecessor, where he said that my job is to protect the people from the politicians. Exactly. So I, that's a beautiful, a beautiful line. Okay, now my next series of questions as we wrap up here, the answer is all gonna be download the Exodus 90 app.

But barring that, uh, I'll invite you to say a little bit more. So if you're a pastor, youth [00:43:00] minister, or someone listening to this conversation thinking, that's it, that's what we need. We need to connect with your more young men. I'm experiencing this crisis of men, adrift men being discouraged, disengaged.

What's the first practical step they can take to start re reaching men, young men, more intentionally? 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Well, we sent out over a thousand parish kits for St. Michael's lent. Um, beginning August 15th, and so a parish can reach out to us for resources. We have also begun to offer parish subscriptions, so that's something you just reach out to us and inquire about.

So if, if you're at a parish, like, I wanna organize this, we, we have resources that we can send you and we can. Even enable your parish to purchase a subscription that any man in your parish could just sign up for Exodus for free through that parish subscription. So we we're really trying to help groups to, to be able to work together.

Now, I would say if you're just a layman and your parish isn't necessarily going to sponsor groups coming in, [00:44:00] I would say the number one thing is to pray about who you could just invite to join you. And like I said, there are beautiful testimonies of young men, old men, uh, doing this together. So it doesn't have to be just a bunch of, you know, people who have the same age group and who already know each other.

You know, this is really a way of getting to know men in the parish. So. Just pray about it might be su surprise who comes to mind. We have non-Catholics who have done it and there's actually beautiful stories of conversion, uh, through Exodus 90. So if somebody's simply just open to, to coming and being a part of the group, they're very welcome.

Doesn't have to simply be practicing Catholics. Um, so whether it's neighbors, friends, relatives, coworkers, parishioners, um, just. Pray about gathering a group of men together, and you can, you can find resources@exodusninety.com and yeah, when you're ready to actually get onto the app. You know, you can go to any of the different app [00:45:00] stores and just look up Exodus 90.

What's your advice to, if you just look up Exodus, you'll find a cryptocurrency. So make sure you put the 90 in there. 

Jason Adkins: Indeed, indeed. What's your advice to fathers? Um, you know, it might be the case that Exodus 90 is too, too advanced in age or not age appropriate for younger, for boys, but what's your advice to fathers in terms of nurturing?

Good disciplines in them at younger ages so that you're building on a firm. The faith is built on a firm foundation, uh, grace perfects nature, but the natural order is already well ordered and younger boys and, uh, early adolescents. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Yeah, I would say that we have had a number of high schoolers do Exodus 90, so I would say one, if you wanted your children to kind of join in you, you can.

Just make adjustments to the disciplines for them. But things like giving up technology and, and even sweets and things like that would be very good for them. And things like the exercise, well, you can do it together. [00:46:00] But, so I would say for men to really be leaders in the faith, one lead the family and prayer.

Two. Uh, the sociologist Christian Smith said one of the most influential things parents do to lead their children in faith is simply talk to them. So just have conversations, and it's not even necessarily catechetical, but hey, what did you think of the Sunday sermon? Or, you know, asking them just about how things are going in their life and, you know, just bringing in, uh, faith into that conversation.

I think spending time using Sunday, the Lord's Day as a, as a day for. Like a hike for family games, whether indoor outdoor games, those kinds of things is very good. Doing work together as a family. My son and I were out trying to do some maintenance to the John Deere, uh, lawnmower, tractor yesterday. So I mean, just little things like that, you know, is whenever you can include, um, the boys and younger men.

The things that you are doing and [00:47:00] connect things to faith as much as possible. And then throughout the liturgical year, you know, just take things seriously and you know that Friday penance take that seriously and, and fasting even throughout lent some kind of fasting that is some discipline of what you eat every day of Lent is, is very important in the Christian tradition.

Jason Adkins: One final question. What's giving you hope? Where do you see the Holy Spirit really active and alive in the church and in the lives of young men today?

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Well, I, I would say working with Exodus 90, I mean, the fact that we are seeing this spread throughout the world with great results is very encouraging. You know, it does fill me with a lot of hope, but I, I would say, you know, you mentioned the nuns earlier, N-O-N-E-S, and everybody kept saying the nuns, the nuns are taking over is not gonna be any Christians.

The narrative is changing, isn't it? And so there's a lot of, of young men, I see them in my own parish who are coming. Um, a lot of, [00:48:00] uh, young people in general just interested in learning about the saints, learning about prayer going on pilgrimage. So there might even be things that Exodus fraternities can do, like taking a, a walking pilgrimage somewhere and inviting young men to join in, inviting some maybe, uh, young men who are not connected in your parish to do Exodus 90.

But the younger generations, you know, are, they're hungry for something more so. There's really a, uh, I think a lot that we can do to welcome them and integrate them into the parish and get them going, whether it's through Exodus 90 or something else. 

Jason Adkins: Dr. Jared Stot, this has been a really enriching and encouraging conversation thanks to the work you do with Exodus 90 and thanks through your ministry, uh, across the church and in a lot of different projects as well.

And just one more time for our listeners, where can they go to learn more about Exodus 90 and the good work there? 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Exodus ninety.com O, um, or download dot Exodus [00:49:00] ninety.app. 

Jason Adkins: Outstanding. Wonderful. Thanks so much for joining us today on Catholic in America podcast and partnership with OSV News. 

Dr. R. Jared Staudt: Thanks for having me.

Jason Adkins: That was an edifying conversation. I'm very grateful to Dr. Stout and the whole team at Exodus 90 for their ministry. Exodus 90 is not something done just during the Lenin season. The scriptural meditations provided each day are outstanding. There are series Desert Fathers in a year with Bishop Eric Varden is excellent and shows us models of holiness that are truly other worldly and that show us that another life is possible and its series on holy leaders such as Blessed Karl of Austria inspired us, the forgotten virtue of magnanimity.

There's a classic saying in the spiritual life that you cannot give what you don't have in the natural order. Men need to cultivate their powers and skills so that they can serve others and fulfill their responsibilities effectively. To deploy those powers effectively, they must be virtuous, but to become holy and not just good, they need to live the [00:50:00] supernatural virtues that come through the life of grace and the font of grace is prayer.

The sacraments, Exodus 90, by teaching men to pray with the scriptures and by offering models of holiness and the supernatural virtues in action is helping to lead a true renewal in Catholic manhood. That manhood will lead us to be better husbands and fathers, as well as better community leaders and workers, but better in the sense of living their life of discipleship in the context of their earthly responsibilities.

By doing so, men will draw people into the reality of the kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is not merely an existential or supernatural reality, but a performative one as well. By performing the life of Christ in our daily lives, more people and more of creation will be drawn up into that communion, which is the whole purpose of the gospel, to make manifest the kingdom of God.

There have been great kings in history who are models of that virtuous manhood, but we need not des spare because we are not earthly kings ourself. We are all priests, prophet and king by our baptism and share that great dig, dignity of [00:51:00] Christ to be his hands and feet again. Exodus 90 is inviting men to become.

Fully alive in Christ, and we're already seeing some great fruits of that reality all around us. Thank you for listening to Catholic in America. If you like the show, give us a good rating and share with your friends and neighbors. I'm Jason Atkins, wishing you the peace of Christ in the reign of Christ.

God bless.

Closing VO: This OSV podcast production is in partnership with OSV News. Visit OSV News. Com to learn more.